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Sexism in Comics - WD Comics

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Will takes a look at sexism in comic books, from the origins of the medium to where it is today. Like us on Facebook http://facebook.com/wulffden Previously: Sexism in Video Games http://youtu.be/vtJb2MdNMA4 Why We Don't Like RPGs http://youtu.be/vtJb2MdNMA4 DC Essentials 2014 http://youtu.be/8vDE9upX0ts
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Text Comments (52)
Axel Tman (11 days ago)
I always loved that the xmen is an all male team Oh wait...
Jordan TRusso (5 months ago)
Still love Frank Cho, only because he annoys the hell out of the "fake fan-girl comic crowds" and the "screeching fem nazia".
Dudemode The dudes mood (6 months ago)
1:30 looks like a penis
Jane Madison (9 months ago)
I see real women degrade themselves everyday. Sleeping with men they don't know. Getting butt and breast implants. Aborting their children they don't want. Playing sexist rap music or watching female artist who are barely dressed. And THIS! This is an issue for you?
diane knut (10 months ago)
Wow i didn't know comics used to be this bad, i'm really thankful to how far they've come and how much progress is still happening!
sure when it comes to sexualization of women in comics some think it's hot, offensive and demeaning, or just plain tacky.
King_Hyperion89 (1 year ago)
So what if a lesbian woman likes looking at 90s female art. Is she sexist for liking it? No.
smileyShiiZniTZ (1 year ago)
comics are the most sexist medium, ummmm what about porn
mclaughlin75 (1 year ago)
I don't plan on getting a bunch of men together to go after Lifetime because they often portray men in a negative light, or their lack of male driven shows.
Beverly Marsh (1 year ago)
i mean they do sexualize women but they also beef up men too
antonio terry (1 month ago)
Beverly Marsh Too show power. Beefing up men for sexual imagery is a conviency.
Jaden Van Hess (2 years ago)
I honestly don't agree with the whole "Women are Mistreated or Hyper Sexualized in comics" if you are gonna say that, You might as well also say men are as well. It's like saying Superman and Batman, Hulk, Daredevil, Martian Manhunter, Ect are being hyper Sexualized because they have big muscles and they are Ripped or whatever, better than the average man. It's art, why not let an artist express there creative freedom and create there characters in whatever shape or Form they want?. And about Women being Mistreated by other characters in comics, I'm not sure if you realized but Men get mistreated by other Characters in comics as well XD it's just like in real life. And just because Gwen Stacy or Green Lantern's GF was killed that means it's also degrading women? What about all the Male characters that died? The reason they do that is to express Sadness and Tragedy to the other Character, to prove heroes have a human side as well. Wonder Woman's First love (Who was a Male) Died.
antonio terry (1 month ago)
Jaden Van Hess Not an argument
Eastwood (2 months ago)
marcus cummings That's bullshit. Women be leering at guys all the fucking time.
trisha Hernz (1 year ago)
Women don't get enough fanservice at a male character's expense. Closest we got was Iron Man with the tentacles and Nightwing's butt.
marcus cummings (1 year ago)
men are sexually stimulated through visualization. women are not.
Wayne Creager (2 years ago)
God. I actually liked your segment.
TheFirstGuy (2 years ago)
Women don't buy comics and never have. Comics are a business and they will not alienate their current readership. If Feminists want different characterizations they will have to become a major part of the readership or write their own comics. There is no hidden agenda, they simply do what they have to in order to sell comics and as long as men like breasts and booty, that is what they put on their female characters. Thats why you will never see a major fat superhero or an old one. Its a visual medium and people like to look at that which is visually pleasing. And lets be honest here for a second. Even women prefere voluptuous, well shaped women and beefy men over the alternative.
TheFirstGuy (1 year ago)
+CosmoShidan Yet you stated that women don't buy comics and never have. Am I to take that premise as a sarcasm?" Are you really this stupid or are you just desperate for scoring points? Of course I did not mean that literally. We have already gone over that. I am starting to get vertigo here. "By nagging I believe you mean debating and discussing a feminist aesthetics. Yes, there is such a thing as feminist aesthetics," No, I mean what I explained I meant. I am talking about faux feminist outrage about Spiderwoman's pose on a cover. If I meant something else, I would have spelled it out, since you can't be trusted with spotting any sort of stylistic device. "Because I sure do and it shows that women make up a large portion of sales for the big two" Ok since you don't read the articles you link, let me show you the relevant quotes: "Chip Mosher, Comixology’s v-p, communications and marketing, confirmed that 20% of its new customers in the third quarter of 2013 were females ages 17–26." Well that is good. Its not even close to 50% and it does not talk about the current readership. "Again, Comixology’s Chip Mosher offers customer survey data to back this up. “We bring a ton of new customers into the comic and graphic novel buying ecosystem,” he says. “During Q3 of last year, 20% of our new customers were completely new to comics, with their first experience of the medium on Comixology. Of that, 64% later went on to buy comics in print." Aha, so at least for one retailer there has been a growth in completely new readers as well as female customers. But it does not say that there is a big already existing female readership, rather an increasing one, due to more general interest comics like Walking Dead as well as comics with female titular characters. "I'm a little confused here." And I am starting to lose my mind. Consider my original post. What about that would suggest to you that I had an issue with sex-positive feminist influences? I said the opposite, that I do not even know about genuine sex-positive critique of contemporary comics, because they already  conform to these standards and more conservative or sexist depictions of females are already so few and far between. Sex-negative Feminist, are generally those who complain about supposedly sexually suggestive content and any sort of flirting with kinky imagery. Which tends to be created when you have attractive fighting women in skintight leotards and spandex.
CosmoShidan (1 year ago)
+TheXIXthGuy "I never even argued that point. Why would you bring it up? Its just more irrelevant bullshit." Yet you stated that women don't buy comics and never have. Am I to take that premise as a sarcasm? "Says who? And interestingly that would be exactly the kind of feminism reproduced in comics right now. Depicting women sexual and in control. Really only sex negative feminism is even able to seriously critique geek culture. Sex positive feminism is about as established as it could be. Which of course does not stop them from nagging." By nagging I believe you mean debating and discussing a feminist aesthetics. Yes, there is such a thing as feminist aesthetics, which does look at presentation, taste and art from an ethical perspective: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-aesthetics/ "Sure never doubted that they were. You are arguing with yourself. I know that Neil Gaiman is a Feminist, but the success of his comics is not a product of their political leanings, but of their artistic merits." I would argue that Gaiman is a feminist not on the grounds of politics, which usually considered separate from ethics. Gaiman argues his ethical position from feminist aesthetics. "That is a meaningless question. Better represented than what? Than they are? Do I have to remind you of all the great female lead comics again? Do you mean that female readers are not being catered too? Already explained, because Marvel and DC have to expect that its not economically reasonable. And what would that even look like?" Sir, just because there are but a handful of women in lead comics, does not mean that all is well. And it's not a meaningless question in that there would not be an ongoing debate in the first place, and that there is still much underrepresentation going on, even as we speak. Also, how do you even know that it's economically unreasonable? Do you have a report to back this up? Because I sure do and it shows that women make up a large portion of sales for the big two:http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/comics/article/61533-despite-early-sales-slump-comics-retailers-remain-upbeat.html "If I may remind you of my original point. I was explaining why characters were and are depicted as they are being depicted. I am perfectly aware of the fact that comics are a traditionally progressive medium, which is why comics and their creators right now happen to align with the ideals of sex-positive feminism. Of course I am not arguing with the feminist who I do not disagree with and who is not complaining. I am arguing with the feminist, the sex negative ones, who is indeed complaining." I'm a little confused here. To be specific, I thought when you gave the impression that sex-positive feminists were "nagging", and that sex-negative feminists critique geek culture, you were leaning towards the latter. Now in this statement, it appears you've gone and made a contradiction. Or did you get mixed up?
TheFirstGuy (1 year ago)
+CosmoShidan "Yet we still can't pretend that women aren't geeks; for they do buy comics and are half the geek population by what those article shows. It's not like women aren't half the human population already." I never even argued that point. Why would you bring it up? Its just more irrelevant bullshit. "The more progressive feminism is sex-positive feminism." Says who? And interestingly that would be exactly the kind of feminism reproduced in comics right now. Depicting women sexual and in control. Really only sex negative feminism is even able to seriously critique geek culture. Sex positive feminism is about as established as it could be. Which of course does not stop them from nagging. If there is a debate about women being secondary rather than main characters then that would be a perfect example of a stupid debate. Simply because the role of main and supporting characters are determined by who the titular character is. Almost by definition all men in Batwoman, Miss Marvel and Red Sonya comics are secondary characters. Vice versa for comics with male titular characters. "but here is something to show that the names I put out are feminist writers:" Sure never doubted that they were. You are arguing with yourself. I know that Neil Gaiman is a Feminist, but the success of his comics is not a product of their political leanings, but of their artistic merits. "why aren't women better represented in comics" That is a meaningless question. Better represented than what? Than they are? Do I have to remind you of all the great female lead comics again? Do you mean that female readers are not being catered too? Already explained, because Marvel and DC have to expect that its not economically reasonable. And what would that even look like? If I may remind you of my original point. I was explaining why characters were and are depicted as they are being depicted. I am perfectly aware of the fact that comics are a traditionally progressive medium, which is why comics and their creators right now happen to align with the ideals of sex-positive feminism. Of course I am not arguing with the feminist who I do not disagree with and who is not complaining. I am arguing with the feminist, the sex negative ones, who is indeed complaining.
CosmoShidan (1 year ago)
+TheXIXthGuy "The Guardian article still only cites this exact "study", which is still completely irrelevant to the discussion. They may claim that this blog published findings about readership, but that does not make it true. So what is your point in showing it to me again? You clearly haven't read it. It is not "evidence enough that women do in fact buy comics", at least not to the degree men do. If anything it shows that popcultural interest in comics has increased, but that does not prove anything about demographics. You are supposed to make arguments and people consider how convincing they are, you do not just get to decide what is "evidence enough"." Yet we still can't pretend that women aren't geeks; for they do buy comics and are half the geek population by what those article shows. It's not like women aren't half the human population already. "As I see it, feminism is status quo in comics. I can't see what you are challenging. The days of damsels and bimbos (engl. slang for dumb broads, just to make that clear before you jump down my throat for racism) are long gone in comics. Female superheroes may not sell as many copies or get as much marketing, but they get their fair share of chances and effort, as well as a recent avalanche of worthwhile comics." Okay, that is a misunderstanding of feminism. For one, if it is "status quo" feminism, then why aren't women better represented in comics? Also, if a certain type of feminism was the status quo, there wouldn't be a debate of the current comics culture of women being secondary rather than main characters, then main characters. Now if this sort of feminism I'm referring to is sex negative feminism. The more progressive feminism is sex-positive feminism. "Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman are celebrated figures in comic circles. However they are not celebrated for pushing their political agenda. They are celebrated for being outstanding artists. Many whom you call feminists, which might well be accurate, have not restrained themselves when it comes to the depiction and characterization of female characters to conform to puritanical feminist standards. And If Red Sonya (Gail Simone) Batwoman (Greg Rucka) are what you look to as model feminist comics, than I do not know what more you are asking from comics." Now hold on there, Sex-positive feminism would be in support of sexual costuming upon a female character, so long as her characterization is done in a realistic manner. Sex-negative feminism would be against sexually explicit costuming, but not so much of characterization. Now this may be a starting point, but here is something to show that the names I put out are feminist writers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_feminist_comic_books "In conclusion, you are making scattershot accusations and arguing against a strawman. So, go fuck yourself." Says the one who knows fuck all about the types of feminism. Please take some time to study it in this peer reviewed article: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-topics/
TheFirstGuy (1 year ago)
+CosmoShidan So first of all, I consider someone who starts to argue semantics, instead of the points, to have realized that the debate is lost. Don't pretend that you did not understand what I meant with "Women don't buy comics and never have"  and "And lets be honest here for a second. Even women prefer voluptuous, well shaped women and beefy men over the alternative." Playing "hide the ball" will not get you out of this. We are not studying the Talmud here. The Guardian article still only cites this exact "study", which is still completely irrelevant to the discussion. They may claim that this blog published findings about readership, but that does not make it true. So what is your point in showing it to me again? You clearly haven't read it. It is not "evidence enough that women do in fact buy comics", at least not to the degree men do. If anything it shows that popcultural interest in comics has increased, but that does not prove anything about demographics. You are supposed to make arguments and people consider how convincing they are, you do not just get to decide what is "evidence enough". Now to all the completely completely irrelevant, yet funny, stuff you brought up. As I see it, feminism is status quo in comics. I can't see what you are challenging. The days of damsels and bimbos (engl. slang for dumb broads, just to make that clear before you jump down my throat for racism)  are long gone in comics. Female superheroes may not sell as many copies or get as much marketing, but they get their fair share of chances and effort, as well as a recent avalanche of worthwhile comics. Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman are celebrated  figures in comic circles. However they are not celebrated for pushing their political agenda. They are celebrated for being outstanding artists. Many whom you call feminists, which might well be accurate, have not restrained themselves when it comes to the depiction and characterization of female characters to conform to puritanical feminist standards. And If Red Sonya (Gail Simone) Batwoman (Greg Rucka) are what you look to as model feminist comics, than I do not know what more you are asking from comics. Further, your ridiculous name dropping would make sense, if we lived in a world of "Sandmans" and "All Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonders", where only either chauvinistic and feminist comics existed, but gladly we live in a world were most comics are no more or less feminist than the stuff Neil Gaiman has put out and a small minority of genuinely sexist authors, like Frank Miller, are contributing to a small library of modern, genuinely chauvinistic  comics. In conclusion, you are making scattershot accusations and arguing against a strawman. So, go fuck yourself.
LostinBunga (2 years ago)
and your own viewership is at least 90% male? Am I wrong? Do not most of them like sexy images? Is that a problem? So comics are sexy. Does that make them sexist? I see nothing wrong with men enjoying sexy images. Throw out your BA, you are smarter than this.
marcus cummings (1 year ago)
You sound like proponent of rape culture, and all the idiot horny guys who waste their lives on porn because they can't get a grip friend and end up with ED.
morning morality (2 years ago)
I remember hearing one super female showed off he cleavage to distract criminals. Come on admit it this tactic would work a lot of the time.
Opeth Morningrise (1 year ago)
Then guys should fight naked because guys would get grossed out so when you hit them they try to not get touched by your dong then the fist
morning morality (2 years ago)
There shouldn't be any heavy set people in comics. It doesn't make sense if you can fight crime or fight a god you expect the person to be toned as hell it would be unrealistic to see a unfit person jumping around fighting crime unless their power involve them being fat like the blob
hallabam (2 years ago)
Comic books are light years ahead of Anime when it comes to sexism.
Alexa LeBlanc (1 year ago)
Um are you dumb?
NazcarFanatic24 (2 years ago)
(Cont.) who use the "damsel in distress" or woman in the "refrigerator" plot device not out of sexist reasons, but for plot convenience and because it's an easy and basic plot device to write. As for the "sexualization" of women, ockham's razor reduces the reason, to the fact that as the majority market is men that they need to figure a way to sell to them. And why is sexualization such a bad thing? Why can't women be exceptionally attractive and skilled, resourceful, and competent to often we see in fiction and in real life females who are attractive, but do not wish to apply their potential anywhere due to a lack of interest or caring. The criticism that those depictions of well endowed women are unrealistic, are null because they characters and their universes are indeed fictional.
Eastwood (2 months ago)
CosmoShidan That's a load of bullshit and you know it. The whole Women in Refrigerators nonsense is stupid because plenty of male characters who were important to the male protagonist have died. Jason Todd, Bucky Barnes, Uncle Ben, Thomas Wayne, Tim Drake's dad, etc. Its not like death matters in comics anyway so shut the fuck up.
trisha Hernz (1 year ago)
That's just lazy writing nowadays. It's why Nintendo goes out of it's way to give Zelda a character and solid relationship with Link in modern games than the princess locked in a castle.
CosmoShidan (1 year ago)
Yet the damsel in distress cliché is sexist, insofar as it portrays women as rewards for the male hero's efforts, as opposed to the portrayal of a full-fledge human being. Not to mention it is the fantasy of a teenage boy who does not know how to speak to members of the opposite sex and thinks that if they do something for members of the opposite sex, that they will get them as a reward. Also, to use the female character as a death motivator is degrading in that the female is treated like property that the antagonist has destroyed, like one's home or memento. Plus to use such plot devices appears to be lazy and uncreative when there are better options to macguffins, such as stealing a treasure, taking down a tyrant, dealing with a great monster or destructive force, etc.
NazcarFanatic24 (2 years ago)
I will refute these claims. Joseph Campbell was a famous mythologist and an expert in comparative mythology. He was one of the first to document that most all hero myths share a similar structure. Called the monomyth. Basically his theory was that the hero is living their lives ideally, then a major call to action forces them to go through a series of challenges and struggles until they fix the problem then they come away from the experience with newfound wisdom and experience etc. Now think what call to action would motivate you? Revenge, mundanity in life, or the loss of somebody you care about? For most it's the loss of a loved one and in many cases it's a female who is of great importance to the male protagonist, who are selected because harm to them will disrupt the male antagonists life. Now most games and comics are written from a perspective of men because for the plain and simple fact that for generations and still the majority of a fan base are males. (To be cont.)
Matticus Barticus (2 years ago)
I don't think it is just women. Both men and women are oversexualized in comics. It is just easier to point it out when it is happening to women because it is more in your face. You can't just put a man in a woman's pose or a woman in a man's pose because men in woman's poses looks silly and the other way around is neutral or kinda dry. Women, they show skin, butts, boobs and everything is unrealistic. Men, they have unrealistically large muscles, stand in power stances and are shredded.  They can stand to cut back on both of these to be fair, but I find the over the top women to be more distracting. Superhero comics pretty much suck anyway. It seems they more want women to be portrayed like men and I think that is sexist towards women as well. Drawing sexy woman poses as men just shows that there are indeed differences between genders which seems to be what everyone is trying to eliminate.
marcus cummings (1 year ago)
However men are sexually stimulated through visualization. Women are stimulated through touch. That's why way more guys watch porn than girls. I'm saying guys lust over these comic book images creating an even more fucked up culture than we already have, and most women sent gonna jack of to Batman or Superman. But it does go both ways
Earth Linger (3 years ago)
See, here's the thing. If there are no major female creators in the industry, how can you expect more female orientated content from the industry? After all, creators create stuff they can somewhat relate to. (I realise you mentioned this towards the end of your video, but it is still generally a male dominated medium). That is like me bitching about the over sexualised Christian Grey in 50 Shades of Grey. But I understand it, as it is created by a woman, and she wants to portray a desirable dude, as this is what she likes and wanted to write about, as sexy women is what heterosexual male creators like and want to portray! Are you understanding how it works? I do however dislike it when the sexy character is only there to be eye-candy, we need to return back to the film noire days, when sultry femme fatales made sense and weren't one dimensional characters, I reckon Catwoman is a good example of a well-developed sexy female character as far as comics go!
mercpool 001 (3 months ago)
Earth Linger 👏
Dylan Thrillmour (3 years ago)
As much as i do love Frank Miller, i have to say that he is a pretty big sexist. Sin City is by far my favorite comic of all time personally, but it does show his true feelings towards women (majority of them are either prostitutes or strippers with huge tits, pretty face, & big ass) & especially All Star Batman & Robin The Boy Wonder (ahem-Vicki Vale, first five pages-ahem)
Real life or not real life it doesnt matter because at the end of the day sexism is prevalent in comic books. Sexism could be happening in the dirt does it make it any less real? The point is it is IRREFUTABLE that women are objectified and yada yada yada. Am I a feminist? Nope but Im not blind either. Honestly I could care less if Wonder Woman bent over and made it clap or nah because regardless im going to keep reading the comics because it is getting better and its only going to get better.
Matthew Luck (3 years ago)
Captain Marvel is a step in the right direction and a book a look forward to most every month.
ThatLazyAsshole (3 years ago)
Its just male sexualty are we suppost to not like tits now. I mean i would like to see a male character who isnt mr perfect chissled abes and etc but i deal with it beacuse *ITS NOT REAL LIFE!*
William Avitt (3 years ago)
No, I'm sure you don't want to see that. How goofy would Batman look with Jack Black's physique? Pretty silly, right? The same way that Rebel Wilson playing Wonder Woman would be retarded. That said, women drool over Thor every time Chris Hemsworth takes off his shirt so it would be pretty cool if feminists stopped being hypocrites
BlackPrivileged (3 years ago)
Is it sexism or is the visual preferences of male sexuality the real enemy of your cause.
BlackPrivileged (1 year ago)
Whu...Why did you bring this Atomic-Cuck back into my inbox... I just got over his bullshit a week ago.
marcus cummings (1 year ago)
Both
saifussaleh tahir (3 years ago)
Resepi kuoh rsya
saifussaleh tahir (3 years ago)
Resepi kuoh rsya

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