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When Card Games Break

51449 ratings | 2454349 views
For 10% off your first purchase, go to http://www.squarespace.com/austinmcconnell Hearthstone's recent drama with Shudderwock got me thinking: What Happens When You Break A Card Game? PATREON: http://patreon.com/austinmcconnell
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Text Comments (14375)
austinmcconnell (2 months ago)
As several Hearthstone players have correctly pointed out, I didn't quite explain some of Shudderwock's properties correctly/fully. While an "infinite loop" didn't occur precisely as I described, it was still possible with the combination of Grumble, Worldshaker, Saronite Chain Gang, and Murmuring Elemental. If you'd like to learn precisely how all of it worked, there are plenty of in-depth articles that can explain it (and the rest of the card game) in great detail. Feel free to Google something like "How The Shudderwock Combo Works". Don't listen to some filthy casual like me.
Merciless Mode (19 hours ago)
+J-ROD Jarred Venema youre right Hearthstone is bad because to build a good deck in a decent amount of time you need to drop money on cards you dont own. At least in Vanguard I can resell my cards for pretty good value.
Merciless Mode (19 hours ago)
+Mike C. no man Time Twister is game breaking, mind sculpter is just strong
The Dacian Chronolog (2 days ago)
Hi @austinmcconnell or +austinmcconnell 12:08 Well I guess it would break immersion... But a code would have to be included on the card either UPC or QR code requiring card backs and some sort of serial number system.
mmelkilany (3 days ago)
+elliott hansen the Dude dosnt even know you can just press Esc and concade any time . He said you have to watch your self losing!
Wary Trout (1 hour ago)
The game breaks when you believe in the heart of the cards and the exact card you need is drew every fucking time until you win.
Communiser Lynn (4 hours ago)
They do compensate for nerfed/changed cards by allowing you to to disenchant them for their full cost
Michael Lück (7 hours ago)
Spoiler alert... This video is NOT about how to break card games, as the intro suggested :D It's about that one combo that made austin rage quit Hearthstone explained in great detail and then he goes on to talk about game developer ethics for a hot minute. It was fantastic and got me thinking. But I'm still confused as to what the true purpose of this video was... !?
SkyDefender (7 hours ago)
Spending money on Hearthstone? lmao
allviper (7 hours ago)
Online card games can change the text whenever they want. But the good thing about that is you can still play that card in your deck. Buy in real life card games if a card gets banned any final replacement for the card no matter what. And if you spend $20 on that card in real life, you just waste. Real life cars only worth the playability of the card. And if the car gets ban in automatically turns into a useless or very casual card. In the case of hearthstone if they never called you could still use it. They're having Nerf to card I could still use, over a card that I completely lost money on and can't use it anymore. What's compare Hearthstone and MTG. Carpas nerfed in HS you can still use it. If one gets nerved another words banned in MTG. You will need to do research to see what the best replacement for the card you lost is. That means you're in the hole for two cards or more. One for the car that you're replacing and the one that you're buying to replace it. In the case of Pokemon and MTG. He have rotating sets so you're always s*** out of luck when it a set rotates out. So you need buy a completely new deck.
Noah Plescia (8 hours ago)
My only reply is that, with all the other crazy cards HS has, Shudderwock is comparatively fair. So now I just need to see when this video was posted 🙃.
Kookko (10 hours ago)
Heartstone breaking is only about shudderwock? hmmh
Franco Pulido (11 hours ago)
Wrong
Kabir Shotland (11 hours ago)
this is why im f2p
Blankity Blank (12 hours ago)
At least you didn't delve into MTG. Worse combos. More annoying combos. Nothing but combos holy shit. The games extended life breeds cancer into game modes that have no age or set limitations, like commander and modern, with old cards making disgusting and treacherous wins at the play of a single card in conjunction with few other cards.
VINDOMRAM VINDOMRAM (14 hours ago)
When Digimon breaks.
Christopher Artadi (14 hours ago)
First and last video I’ll ever watch on this channel. If you are going to put in such a minimal amount of time researching something, don’t make a video that’s intent is to educate the masses on it.
Travis Glen (14 hours ago)
Bruh austin why is one half of your community toxic and ignorant. I feel like i'm sitting in a black ops 2 lobby
JJ FRENZY (14 hours ago)
Anyone know where the hearthstone clip is from
tremin (15 hours ago)
Watching this 2 months later, there is probably already someone who have commented on this, but I'm fairly certain that in the Terms of service from blizzard, they tell you that they own your account, which is saying that they can ban you at any point if they deem it fitting etc. and to a certain extension that would also mean that, they do own your 'cards' in hearthstone or atleast so I would imagine to a certain degree.
hoo gooo (20 hours ago)
Some games allow you to go back to older versions not most online games though.
ULTRAWEEB GAMING (1 day ago)
Buddyfight is currently broken. With Lost World monsters, highest critical of a whooping *8* , and by default buddyfight rules, you begin a fight with 10 life unless you have a special flag, I’d say Lost World is too OP. The only disadvantage Lost World users have is that it cannot be used as a initial flag, so the opponent can use that time frame to beat the opponent down (which is very unlikely) before the opponent activates <Belost> and changes to Lost World and get the Lost Deck full of OP things. Search up “Lost World deck Lost Dimension” and find some videos with a card review and you will get what I mean. Thancc, MadRobloxGuy2017 / ULTRAWEEB
ULTRAWEEB GAMING (1 hour ago)
+Merciless Mode Sorry, I never tried playing CardFight Vanguard, only heard of it. I only play buddyfight.
Merciless Mode (18 hours ago)
What about cardfight vanguards current OTT meta, free perfect guards with bonus critical and fastest card advantage in the game Until Zanbaku drops tomorrow and nerfs ott into the groubd
Different (1 day ago)
as a kid playing Yu Gi Oh, these cards would be mutually agreed to be banned from decks. Made the game more fun by having it be self balanced. Maybe with some kind of rare cards you could counter this very strong less rare one, but we dd still go ahead and ban it since we don't have those rare cards. It was all about figuring a strat with common cards to win, nothing pay to win, nothing op. ..we even banned cards we didn't know exactly how they worked, we were kids and we weren't native in English (plus non had internet to google these stuff...)
Braven Koh (1 day ago)
At least Minecraft which is a paid game hasn't changed except creative mode and also the far lands and redstone works
Kenjineos (1 day ago)
When you hear the Secureteam10 song... 👽
Winston Hunt (1 day ago)
This is why Minecraft gives you every version released when you bUy the game because sometimes you want the game to play the same way every time you play and sometimes you want to see the new mechanics.
Kappra (1 day ago)
I'm a Yugioh nerd.
Magic is my game
Guinette Russell (1 day ago)
Look, let’s face it. We All Wanted all of those Yu Gi Oh Cards
Kitane Senpai (1 day ago)
Holy fuck what do i see a magic card back with 6 Dot´s there, are you god damn kidding me 11:48
Soulsreaper (1 day ago)
the first one in the video dosent make any sense because u can attack if ur the first person to lay a card down, I also didn't see any abilties that would let u get around that when readying both of the cards descriptions
Merciless Mode (18 hours ago)
Catapult turtle doesnt attack it deals direct damage via effect, in the pre errata version you could trigger it back to back to back
Steel Assimo (1 day ago)
*MY JAWS THAT BITE, MY CLAWS THAT CATCH*
Trogalitious (1 day ago)
Who tf played pokemon
PivotableDoor60 Plays (2 days ago)
You've obviously never played Magic if you think 20 minutes is too long lol the only formats that have super fast games are Legacy, Vintage, and Modern, and even those can have 20 minute + long matches
Merciless Mode (18 hours ago)
Vintage matches last 5 minutes tops unless theres a stall deck Edh lasts 15 assuming a t1 or t0 deck, legacy lasts 7 and modern lasts 15 Standard is the only format that averages slower than 20 at a competitive level
Sam Martinez (2 days ago)
Not one of these things is in actual argument among competitive players in any game
Wild Stew (2 days ago)
Wait didn’t yugioh sue upper deck because they fake Yu-Gi-Oh cards
Zawa Games (2 days ago)
The most annoying part about this comment section is all the idiots saying DURR IT'S NOT PAY TO WIN when Hearthstone is ridiculously pay to win, if you're going to play in the standard format. getting each exact card you need takes so much dust, and god forbid you need legendaries. I played before expansions started hitting all the time, maybe got Naxx and whatever was after that, and realized if I didn't pay into each expansion, I wasn't going to say in the top 5 tiers of the ranked ladder much longer. I dropped the game because I wasn't going to grind for shit, and I'm not going to pay for cards that have *zero* value once the game is gone. At least I could resell my Magic shit, at least I could sell my Force of Will shit off, can't do anything about all that time I put into Hearthstone back at launch. This is the problem with 'card games' in general. So many new sets come out, if you don't have the pockets to stay relevant, then you're stuck in middling boredom for time immemorial. You sure as fuck won't be able to stay relevant without lucking into good cards, that's for sure. I'm done with grinding in games, LoL made me do that shit way too long, not gonna have Hearthstone sucker me into it too.
Merciless Mode (18 hours ago)
Thats why Vanguard is so well made, until G format even 5 year old decks could compete
x Ærthur (2 days ago)
BIG LUL on the 60$ needed for Shudderwock. You can save gold u know? You dont have to buy a pack after every daily quest lmao duuuude
Steel Dom (3 days ago)
Why does the cardback of Magic the Gathering that you're showing have 6 colored dots? There are only 5 colors.
Merciless Mode (18 hours ago)
Its an unglued back ya scrub, there are 7 colors Double red and purple are joke colors but they exist
LastFractionZero (3 days ago)
What happens when you break a cardgame? You make money. That's the entire idea. You release an expansion containing one or two cards that dominate the meta. People pay to get the meta dominating cards while at the same time complaining that they've becoming an absolute necessity. After an initial purchasing rush sales begin to dwindle. As vocal dissatisfaction over those cards grows the potential risk for blowback from nerfing or banning the cards is being reduced. Once dissatisfaction starts reaching a fever pitch you can then "listen to the community" and nerf or ban the cards. Repeat the same process with the next expansion.
mmelkilany (3 days ago)
You dont have to watch your self losing you can just press Esc and then concade and you can que for next game ! Like alot of ppl said it seems you never played HS !
Rose Doesn't Know (3 days ago)
You know that agreement you don't even read before playing an online TCG? That agreement sums up to be, "You don't actually own these cards and we don't need to compensate you for any reason"
iOhzZoHD (3 days ago)
When you ask me, HS should just get some kind of Test-Server, that they can test new cards before they release them ... And i mean, isnt it better to get a game constantly patched? There are or were games you just couldnt play, bcs they are/were full of bugs (Gothic 3 for example). In my opinion every devs out there should create Test-Servers to keep the game up to date and balanced TOGETHER WITH THEIR DAMN COMMUNITIES *cough* riot, bluehole, activision ... *cough*
Infected Armour (3 days ago)
Thing is there are infinites in mtg and when one happens typically every just under stands te player who went infinite won so that player then either leaves (most often especially if there is time for another match) or the player decides who loses first.
HideANDLook (3 days ago)
Yu gi oh forever
Jacob L (3 days ago)
You could have stopped all this! Where were you?
Joseph Cornelius (3 days ago)
You could easily use dust to create Shudderwock
XDevantX (3 days ago)
Conclusion, always on is unethical. All games should have an offline mode.
Wizard Scramble (4 days ago)
i need to watch more video like. explaining about card game, UGHHHH I NEED MOAR!!!!!!!!
Jim Bob (4 days ago)
Shit like this is why I stopped playing Hearthstone. This and the fact they bring out new decks that you have to buy if you want to stay relevant and they force this now using the gamemode where you can only use new cards! Greedy cunts.
XxyumixX (4 days ago)
I don’t think you could do the Yugioh combo turn one, you can only normal summon one monster a turn and if a minion costs 6 like turtle it requires a sacrifice. Either way that’s irrelevant cause turn two you can do it
Gamecade (4 days ago)
Shudderwok is just Gold Experience Requiem
César Silva Torres (4 days ago)
>"Your oponent has to keep there watching" >Dont mention Goukis or SPYRAL The research level here is 0
Tucker Higbee (4 days ago)
2:11 that's my heaven for ya
Alexander Campagna (4 days ago)
In magic there are literally hundreds of decks who's only goal is to create an infinite combo as fast as possible. There was a deck called flash hulk in the format legacy that could win the game before your first turn.
Alex Elsaadi (4 days ago)
Nerfs and buffs are part of online games. I've spent $800 on a magic deck and half of it got banned out. Just how it goes.
TheOneMiffy92 (4 days ago)
Wtf is up with the misinformation in the Hearthstone section? What's with the back of the Magic Card image? Why is this video filled with dolled-up infotainment?
Merciless Mode (19 hours ago)
Thats an unglued card back, the 6th color is for purple
Michael Gray (4 days ago)
I like the idea you tried to do here but, you never played the deck. Its pretty obvious the way you describe him working. Also, leaving out the dusting and crafting mechanic in Hearthstone is pretty misleading. I'm honestly worried about how honest the rest of your content is.
Deven Newdles (4 days ago)
you can only summon one monster per turn in yugioh so you cannot one turn win ffs
vulkan435 (4 days ago)
Solution: saronite's ability summons a saronite.
Zinriusminazen (4 days ago)
To answer your question about the 11:20 ish mark... No, you won't be compensated because Terms of Service protects them and warns players that changes can and will be made with no refunds needed to be given due to this reason.
Stevy Guzman (4 days ago)
They ruined Elder Scrolls Legends, here’s my video: https://youtu.be/8dxCGYpndSc
24fr4n (4 days ago)
That's agonising.
Sieg Hart (4 days ago)
should rename the video: "what happens when Hearthstone breaks" dude literally just complained about some shit in Hearthstone and tried comparing it to other live card games lol
Corene Hicks (4 days ago)
Its not even possible to get catipult turtle and the scientist out on the first turn
Merciless Mode (19 hours ago)
Yes it is, even on release it was easily possible
theKWOKA (5 days ago)
And Blizzard allows all cards that are nerfed to be turned into dust at full value. So they do compenste people for their cards being changed... And the cards are available for free
theKWOKA (5 days ago)
But monsters summoned by other cards don't trigger battlecries...
SkylarV5 (5 days ago)
I remember back in 2012 when Sableye donk decks were a big deal in the Pokemon TCG because of new rules being implemented at the time
Captain Amber (5 days ago)
Top comments: CORRECT accusations of FALSE information The comments at the bottom: 2 op plz nerf Now this, this is funny
lucus lopez (5 days ago)
I don't know anyone who keep buying packs inorder to get 1 card. Only people I have seen doing this are content creators because they are ether do it for the views or getting the packs for free.
Merciless Mode (19 hours ago)
Its pretty common since in hearthstone you cant just make a decklist go on tcgplayer and order singles
Boopity Bop (5 days ago)
I like how you compared a slow and low win rate deck, to a instant win deck I dont even play Yu-Gi-Oh! and still know this is like saying "Its just a prank bro." after shooting someone in the leg with a airsoft gun until it bleeds.
Calvin_Coolage (3 days ago)
Low win rate? I saw someone in the comments here claim Shudderwock had a 50% winrate when it first came out.
Boopity Bop (5 days ago)
By this dude's logic deathrattle activates when any card dies charge makes adjacent minions able to atack on the first turn their played too poisonous works on heroes discover shows you ten cards ispire activates when any card is played adapt combines the stats of adjacent minions I could go on making false hs effects but I think you get the point here.
L Lawliet (5 days ago)
Catapult Turtle and Magical Scientist, oh please, real men play the Chaos Emp Dragon-Yata Garasu combo. Real talk though, that’s why ban lists exist in Yugioh.
CARTER McCabe (5 days ago)
I was about to win then a person pulled the shudderwock method
Joseph Gomez (5 days ago)
The butterhurt fanboys are hilarious. It's a stupid card game.
Fredrik Love Byström (5 days ago)
Magical scientist? Wizard. Just say wizard.
Rose MacNamara (5 days ago)
I never thought of it that way, since everything in those games is Blizzards property, you're basically paying loads of money for nothing. Including other companies.
Evan Griggs (5 days ago)
The only way around this issue would be to charge a price at the beginning, and then NO purchases that affect gameplay. Overwatch and Dota 2 (Free game anyway) do this well. While games like league are free, they constantly update champions, maybe nerfing the champion a day after you spend $10 on it.
bro welcome to Yu-Gi-Oh lopes
J. Weinberg (4 days ago)
what I thought.
Zembyron (5 days ago)
Bad research about Shudderwock and Hearthstone in general.
Theriomancer (5 days ago)
Unlike physical card games in Hearthstone cards can be buffed/nerfed, (reducing a spell's cost, reducing a minion's attack, completely changing the way an effect works, etc.) so while Hearthstone can have a flawed expansion it can not be truly broken. Also your "Oh you gotta spend a shit load of money" statement is incorrect, you could craft cards by disenchanting other cards for dust. Yes Shudderwock would need *A LOT* of dust but you could feasibly do it with enough work and not spend a single penny to do so. Also *NO* The game makers are not obligated to compensate you if you are dumb enough to waste so much money looking for X card and it gets nerfed, nerfs and buffs are a part of online game play and players have to role with the punches. If I am playing World of Warcraft, spend months worth of subscription fee to level a class then it gets nerfed do I demand compensation to have my subscription fee for those months refunded? No of course not. I'm very disappointed in this video, it is like you don't even try to make a good case.
Theriomancer (5 days ago)
How the fuck do you get Catapault Turtle on the field on turn 1, it requires a tribute summon
Vinn Regi (5 days ago)
I remember when you couldn't 1-shot people in YuGiOh, and the game would take time and be a DUEL. When cards had only 6 colors/kinds (yellow - Normal monsters, Brown - Effect mons, Dark Purple - Fusion Mons, Blue - Ritual Mons, Green - Spells, Purple - Traps). When the card text was 2, 3, maybe 4 lines tops. When it was played the way it was meant to be played...
Exxelenen Setijadi (5 days ago)
What about solitaire
Antimanitations (5 days ago)
but it wouldnt happen beacause the first one would use the battlecry of the worldshaker before the second shuddervock would do something
Th3 RandomN3rd (6 days ago)
In magic the gathering, all you have to do is get your creatures (assuming that it would be just creature effects) that are in the graveyard and banished zone and literally look through them. It's not difficult. Make small notes, like you have to anyway
RamadaArtist (6 days ago)
13:05 Just, more obvious answers to rhetorical questions: Look for a whole two seconds outside the sheltered construction of modern, consumer market oriented, gaming, and you'll see that long term consistency of play mechanics basically doesn't exist. From chess, to football (either American or International) to cricket, or hell, poker (WTF is worth Texas Hold 'Em anyway?) games rarely remain fixed over time, and any sensible game should anticipate change. Even with a construct as fixed as SSBM, which has been played without patching for what, at least a decade and a half? The player base has so thoroughly excoriated and dissected the game code, that gameplay innovations that shift the core of how one expects to play the game are still hitting the scene. And sure, you can still play the game like you did when it came out with your group of casual friends, but 1) it only takes one friend picking up modern play mechanics to force everyone else to git gud or give up (or otherwise lament the lack of "fun" now that there's an unbeatable force on the field,) and 2) the casual scene rarely drives the market, just like how millions of backyard baseball players will never effect the official MLB rules. That the core ruleset will be affected most strongly by the top of the competitive bracket is par for the course, and this is nothing new. This should be painfully obvious for a game with an intentionally competitive construct like Hearthstone, and if you're really wondering about what Blizzard *should* be allowed to do, maybe go read the EULA for once, since you do legally agree to its terms before you can even use the software.
RamadaArtist (6 days ago)
12:30 [Additional logic fail] You could "trust" that GoldenEye will play the same way forever. Right, up until your N64 fails after the production run ends, and you've got yourself a nice piece of useless plastic and circuitry. A phantom pain that anyone who started to get serious about playing Smash Bros Melee circa 2012 felt, trying to get consistent performance out of eight year old controllers, and prior to the rerelease of the GameCube controllers for the WiiU.
RamadaArtist (6 days ago)
11:30 You: "Do they have any obligation to compensate you?" WOTC: *spittake, only instead of spit, dollar bills come out* "Are you shitting me?" I mean seriously, have you played CCGs before? Compensate, *the consumer*? That's not how capitalism works son.
Firstname lastname (6 days ago)
shudderwock op pls nerf
Marco5py Greenteam (6 days ago)
This video is just a funny theory if this actually happened.
SerranoHeyo (6 days ago)
This video has been sitting in my suggestions tab probably since it was released and now i decide to watch it lmao
Tucker Busfield (6 days ago)
Frozone: Honey, where is my supersuit Honey: I had to sell it because you made us go broke on that game of yours!
Cherry Noble (6 days ago)
Come on man, give Digimon a break, but besides beating Digimon into a pulp, how about we take all these monster card games and make them into one? Yughio, Bakugan, Beyblades, Pokemon, Digimon, Magic, D&D.. IMAGINE THE CHAOS! SUCH FUN HUH?
Nanoco1000 (6 days ago)
nah all wrong
Gamer Guy (6 days ago)
You clearly have not played heartstone.
Lord Gallvion (6 days ago)
So let me get this straight, all the dislikes on this video is just butt hurt fanboys that don't like the idea that hearthstone is pay to win? because it totally is. The video is about the bug that got patched. And everyone is claiming this is false? Don't really get it at all, he's pretty accurate. This game is a crash grab. It was when it was released, and still is today that's why i quit playing.
Rui Carrilho (6 days ago)
...I find it hard to believe that you play Hearthstone at all after this video. Your editing is fantastic, but to make a video centered around Shudderwock when it's not even as good, misrepresenting the game in so many ways, from buying packs to judging its effects on the meta... Might want to do more fact checking next time
Infernity, PePe, Dragon Ruler, and Gouki format in a nutshell
Henri Tessier (6 days ago)
U are a nice guy.
Rikai (6 days ago)
11:50 wtf is that magic card back? what is that purple color dot, and why is there no ballpen mark on the T?
Acrie (6 days ago)
or. "you're fucked"
Erza Scarlet (6 days ago)
Menjo plus arcana the world loop future card buddyfight unlimited extra turns
Wafflem 360 (7 days ago)
I play yu gi oh magic and pokemon

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